Because I’ve covered most of the topics I desired to when I started this site it has become easier for me to cover topics that arise from comments I make on other sites, than to rack my brain in search of new topics. And so I sometimes post the exact comment here I posted as a guest on another Christian website.
I imagine most Christians believe there is just one hope for humanity, in the sense all followers of Christ have the same final destination. That’s what one commenter on another site was attempting to convince me of while he was responding to an assertion I made there. This was the part of his comment that attempted to convince me; before he started to tell me not to follow Watchtower he posted:
@Messenger Q: How many hopes are there for Christians? A: Ephesians 4:4 “one hope” Q: What hope did we have before we become a Christian? A: Ephesians 2:12,13 “separated from Christ”…”having no hope”…
This was my response to him:
What I said has nothing to with listening to Watchtower in the sense of following it. So let’s set that rhetoric aside first. If what you believe is scriptural then you should be able to accurately refute these facts I’ll lay out. I assert you cannot logically refute them. You might argue against them. But you cannot logically prove them wrong:
*1. There was one hope the apostles shared with those they taught, but not all who became Christian realized that hope. What does that mean? It means the fact they were preaching one hope, to gather the kingdom of God, has nothing to do with what happens to people who become what you or someone else might consider Christian. Also, although the apostles stressed the one hope of the heavenly calling, their scriptures spoke of others remaining on earth-see Revelation. Even Jesus spoke of this group when he spoke of those who inherit the earth-see Matthew chapter five.
*2. Those who are part of Christ’s church are chosen by God. And they are not taught God’s purposes by looking up what some original Greek or Hebrew word meant that is in scripture. Nor is it God’s Bible that is the sole revealer of his truth to them. What does that prove? It proves unless Christ or his Father send their Holy Spirit to teach an individual God’s purpose then that individual is not considered a part of the church the New Testament refers to. See Matthew 23:8-10 and John 16:13.
*3. Some are chosen by God to be what the New Testament calls a kingdom, and they are to rule upon the earth. See Revelation 5:10. What does that prove? Unless one is chosen by God to be part of that kingdom, then he/she is not part of that ruling class mentioned in scripture ruling for God over others on earth. Also see Daniel; there look up “holy ones of the supreme one,” or saints-see Daniel 7:18. 21, 22. Because Daniel wrote about the same group. So to logically prove your point you have to prove that the group Christ considers his church includes more than these ones that rule over the earth, but it also includes the group ruled over by the kingdom, if you consider those others serving God are Christians. And even if you don’t consider them with the label Christian, your teaching is still illogical. Why? Because your statement above did not center on that term, or these other terms like kingdom or church that I’ve brought up. Your assertion was there are not two hopes. And you claim those not Christian have no hope. But surely these scriptures prove there are two hopes, whether you are defining those ruled over as Christian or not. They certainly are/will be people following Christ.
* 4. Those making up that kingdom receive bodies like Christ’s that can go where Christ can go. And Christ can go into heaven. And Christ promised to take those to heaven that he considers his church. See 1Corinthians 15:52-54. See John 14:1-3. What does that prove? It proves since the group can go to heaven that will also rule over others on earth then those ruled over on earth are not a group Christ considered his church. Why? Because he told his church they will be taken to where he went. And this ruling class is not confined to this earth like some other ex-JW sites teach, e.g. Beroeans.net and Beroean Pickets YouTube. It’s clear they go to heaven with ability to come to earth. Why is it clear? Because where Christ went was back to heaven, and he told them he was coming back to take them to that place he went to (heaven).
The term Christian I imagine can define this other group-depending on what definition you give to that word; but remember Christian is a term that was used to label the early followers of Christ. And today that is still used to define people who go to Christian churches. I doubt it will be used in the new world as to live everyone must follow Christ. And they must follow him absolutely as he will require, while acknowledging who he is to them. Matthew 4:10“Away from Me, Satan! Jesus declared. “For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’”
Ephesians 4:4 (a scripture he raised) is only referring to Christ’s church (not humanity in general), which is evident by its reference to one body which is something you left out. The hope of Christ’s church, that ruling class, differs from those ruled over. Ephesians 4:4 reads, “For there is one body and one Spirit, just as you have been called to one glorious hope for the future.” Ephesians 2:12 (a second scripture he raised) speaks to them being outside the covenant God concluded Abram. That promise to Abram’s descendants is what it is speaking to. And the scripture is saying they were living outside that promise. Here read: “In those days you were living apart from Christ. You were excluded from citizenship among the people of Israel, and you did not know the covenant promises God had made to them. You lived in this world without God and without hope.” So that hope God promised Abram that was reiterated through Bible writers was outside their reach. That promise is not a promise made to people ruled over in the new world. But Christ’s church is attached to that promise of God. See Galatians 3:29.
WT is not just correct about two hopes. WT is also correct that those ruled over in the new world are beneficiaries of that covenant Christ made with his church. Romans 8:22 “For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.” Notice how Paul made the distinction between the whole creation groaning, and “we ourselves” (the church) groaning. Obviously the creation though excluded from the covenant Christ made benefits from it. And that is exactly what WT teaches. And they are correct.
For more information on this subject read: http://debatescripture.org/index.php/2020/04/01/the-secret-of-two-christian-groups/
The discussion on that other site was picked up by another commenter who attempted to interpret my words, so I concluded with this:
My distinction was between the group who Christ and the apostles considered the church of Christ (kingdom of God), and those it will rule over. The second group certainly will be followers of Christ. Any humans not following Christ in that second group won’t continue to live. So they could be defined as Christians also, since the word first was applied to followers of Christ. And that’s all it meant. It made no distinction between one Christian who would receive the kingdom and another who would not.
The only reason that scripture says there is one hope, even while other scriptures describe two distinct destinations, is because the purpose of the church’s preaching in the first century was to gather the kingdom of God. There is only one hope for the body of Christ which is the kingdom of God. People going to either destination get everlasting life. But in Ephesians Paul included the calling to go to heaven as part of the one hope he was describing there. See Ephesians 4:4, “in one hope of your calling.” The elect are the only people called by God to go to heaven and rule in his kingdom. “But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and possess it forever — yes, forever and ever” Daniel 7:18. And of course they cannot rule without someone to rule over. And other scriptures identify this second group.
Christ is mediator of both groups. Watchtower at times defines terms too precisely in its interpretations. In this instance WT discovered the ancient Greek word for mediator had a legal definition, I suppose like the word attorney. So WT reasoned the word only has to do with Christ establishing a legal covenant with his church to go to heaven. By doing that WT invalidated the complete truth of other scriptures, such as John 3:16. Even though WT is very familiar with that scripture, knowing it includes people on earth who Christ will be high priest over. And wasn’t the high priest in Israel a mediator between its population and God?
For more information see: